Easiest caster for beginner

The Tavern Dungeon Crawling Advice
101

Yeah, it’s usually better to go D->Lair, clear Lair->clear Orc->then rest of D down to 15. D12-15 can spawn stuff that’s nastier than what you’d find in Lair or Orc. The return is better too: L5 ending and Orc 2 shops should give more than what you’d find on the floor D12-15.

Spells: with Cj, you have all the guns you need for a long time. Prism to kill and block LOS. IMB to get stuff off of ya to run. And by now, you’ve got Spellcasting, Conj and some Alchem and Transloc.

So, what do you need? Crowd control, something to get you started towards your end game goal, and more escapes. What fits the bill?

Apport allows you to grab stuff without getting closer to sleeping bad guys. This should be free with your IMB investment.

Spammals are cheap and can get you that 1 space to escape in a corridor. It’s really cheap to get online. You might even be able to cast it w/ no Summoning even. Perfect stepping stone if you wanna go the Summoner route too.

Blink. More escape, also nearly free with IMB investment.

Meph. CC that’s useful even down to Zot. Cheap too, with the Prism investment. Maybe just 3-4 Air.

Swiftness. Another escape option. It should come online for free if you buy Meph.

Passwall. Now this one takes some thought. It’s really stronk if you know how to use it: i.e., lure stuff into a dead end and pass to leave them “stuck” there (don’t use this if they are too close, ofc). The problem is that it requires Earth, which overlaps with nothing you’ve bought so far. That said, if you are planning to go with LRD, BVC or Bombard, it’s a perfect stepping stone.

From 4 on, a spell takes more dedication. Sometimes you should pass on a juicy one just because it’ll divert too much xp into the “wrong direction.” That’s a game by game decision. But the ones I usually consider are:

Ignite + OTR/Bog
BVC
Freezing Cloud
Yara
Irradiate
Summon Forest or Viper
Death Channel
Permafrost
Plasma
Starburst
Cactus
all of the level 7 ones except Manifold

Which one of the above depends on what I find. But I pick ones that have a common progression: e.g., LRD. BVC, Bombard, or the Summons, or Ice Cloud, Permafrost, OTR, etc. etc. For non-Sif, non-Veh, non-Kiku, non-Goz, I’ll often make this choice after I see what O2 shops give me.

Picking your spell set/progression is a fundamental skill needed by every non-Dj caster. That’s why I usually recommend that a new player watch out for this learning gap if they start with a Dj caster.

Good luck!

102

Getting a servitor online is also extremely good. They get off screen kills when paired with plasma or permafrost. They are very mana efficient, as they cast over and over again, and they are very nice for blocking los. Do not under any circumstances pair with OoD. This is bad.

103

GrEE it’s a solid choice but DECj feels like a realy big caster gun.
Veh is wonderful, what a fantastic God!

About the escapes: Blink & Meph even for me are on top choice, Swiftness never tried and passwall is great but my timing is so bad (I really need to think in advance before using it :-D). Meph is also really good to protect the prism.

About the spells list of Blink_frog:
Ignite + OTR/Bog - Never had the opportunity to try this combo
BVC - I love it
Freezing Cloud - Pure love
Yara - OMG: I read only the dispel part, but after you insert it in this list I see the full description, what a nice spell it is!
Irradiate - rarely seen, I’m unlucky …
Summon Forest or Viper - Forest is nice, what is Viper?
Death Channel - never seen with my Dj, I hope to have some luck with the DE
Permafrost - I love this
Plasma - wow
Starburst - Starbust or fireball are wonderful
Cactus - nevern seen :expressionless:

Ok, I’ll try again (and again), at the moment with the DECj one of the biggest problem is the poison management: as a main Dj I never known that problem :stuck_out_tongue:

Just to share: in D1 I found 3 Acquirement, in D2 I died by poison :frowning:

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104

OTR + Ignite can kill everything on screen. It is like early Oz Fridge for non-rP/rF foes.

OTR + Bog is trickier to use but also even deadlier. Bog will poison anything that isn’t immune. Even rPs. That alone can kill alot. But it stacks so much P so fast that one Ignite does mongo dmg. It does have terrain limitations, nothing next to a wall will get converted, so practice first.

Irradiate is a strong spell, but if you are playing Conj, you might not often use it. Ideally, you are killing stuff before it gets close. If stuff do get close, you might want to IMB them away instead. Still, it is very good.

Viper is Mana Viper. It is a Summons that inflict Anti-Magic status on hits. Amazing in a 1 on 1 fight vs any caster or demon. Even Ancient liches. But not as good vs Orbs of Fire since they roast Vipers so easily.

Cactus requires special tactics. Use them in a corridor, putting them between you and the enemy. They have spines, so a melee enemy will kill (or at least seriously injure) themselves trying to get past your Cactus. They are slow, so using them in the open is hard. Enemies can easily get around em if the positioning is off just a bit.

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105

OTR + Ignite is something I look for in basically every game. I put books with either spell on my shopping list to come back to if I find its complimentary spell. That combo will carry you through a lot of a three rune game. It is even useful in zot. I wouldn’t learn it if I had lvl 7+ spells memorized but it is such a good combo and super fun.

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106

My current Dj run got Ignite at xl 11. But I had no P magic. That was sad. Until I got Bog at xl 17.

Poisoning Nagas and Aizul to death (and/or roasting em) is fun!

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107

Hello everyone,

I’m doing a run with a seeded game, one from the wins of @Sobieck , I did D11, L5, O and I’m now at E2, DECj, I’m not saying that I’m having hard times, but if I compare this run with a DjCj one, I’m feeling a little “back” than the Dj.

Maybe is something about skill training:

  • I left active only Conjuration* and spellcasting+
  • At XL10 I decided to wear a shield and found some air magics (ice clouds, airstrike), so I added Air and Shield, reduced Conj from * to +.
  • At XL12 I was feeling fleeble so I started training Dodging and Fighting (for hp)
  • At XL14 Veh gave me Permafrost, so I started training Earth/Ice

At this moment I’m training Fighting, spellcasting, Air, Earth and Ice: is a little too much?

Said that, I’m in E3, the strange thing is that E1-E2 (but even Orcs) were harder than my usual DjCj run and I don’t understand why. For example: prism usually kills basic mages in E, but in this run I need more prisms (or at least: I perceive this)

I’m happy to try seeded games, so I can do runs that I now can be winnable!
(the last try in this seed ended brutally going down in L5 and find an hydra near the staircase … it exploded me in 1 hit.

https://underhound.eu/crawl/morgue/Yukuai/Yukuai.txt

108

I would turn off Spellcasting. You are at 18.8. It should be getting pretty expensive now (you can check with m). Not good return on invested xp at this point. You can buy more later if you need it.

I would definitely buy more Fighting. 7.6 at E3 is low. I’d want it to 12-15. It is expensive for a DE, but pretty mandatory because of squishiness.

Dodge is fine at 11 rn. You only have 13 Dex, so that’s not great return on investment right now. You can boost it to 12-15 later.

Check to see how expensive Shield is. Maybe getting it to 8 will be cost effective.

I’d buy Stealth up to 4. It shouldn’t take long at all. Then use it to avoid stuff you aren’t ready to fight yet.

You have Rod, Phial and Mirror. I’d buy Evoc to 4-6. Probably 8 even. Rod can’t miss, so use it vs really hard to hit little buggers and/or when you are low on MP. Use Phial vs spellcasters (check their info first to see if Silence works on them). Mirror vs any single tough opponent. All 3 scale up with Evoc. At 0, they won’t do much or last long. But at 6-8, they can do good work. Rod will hit harder. Phial’s waterlog and Mirror’s clone will last longer. And then use the darn things. They recharge really fast. Like, in a floor or two.

For your Prism, buy 6 Alchem. It’s cheap and should up the dmg.

The thing about skilling, is that you want to buy the most benefits for the xp you spend. Treat xp like money. Frequently check for cost of things with m. You’ll see that, even for skills where you have a positive apt, it’ll get to a point where the skill costs like 15 to raise it another level, while a skill you have negative apt in only costs 2.3 because it is still low. So instead of buying 1 more level of that expensive skill, maybe you can buy 2-4 levels of say 3 cheaper skills (like Evoc, Stealth).

For multi-school spells, if one is your main school, keep upping it. But still buy a couple of the other school while it is cheap. The example is Prism: Conj is your main school, and Alchem isn’t. But look to see how much Alchem you can buy. A few for very little xp. Since power is basically = (Conj + Alchem)/2, you see how upping Alchem even a little can help?

I try to focus on only 1 or 2 skills at a time, and set targets with m=. That tends to get one or two things online faster, rather than say six things slower. Power now is better than power later.

**** READ BOBROSS’s COMMENT BELOW FIRST ****
That said, in Elf, Freezing Cloud is often way better than Prism because of the tight spaces. Lure them into a corridor. Drop the cloud so it doesn’t hurt you but they have to rush through it to reach you. Back up and watch em die.

One last thing, I wouldn’t run around with that staff. *Slow is nasty. Think of it as giving all of your opponents free Haste (when it triggers). That is scary. Swap to it if you need the resist.

Good luck!

109

You should do S-Branches before Elf. You’re pretty underpowered for E

2 Thanks
110

Wait, what?? I totally missed that.

bobross419 is absolutely right! S before E!

111

Oh shit you have a good path. Get Perma up then go for Shatter. Shatter has weaknesses against flying enemies, but Perma should be able to compensate for that.

My shatter strategy is go down stairs, cast shatter because it is loud and monsters are curious idiots. Wait a bit. Cast shatter when things come at you, maybe waiting a turn to see if anyone else shows up. When low on MP go up. Zot note: always read rev before casting. It will open vaults and zot vaults will kill you because shatter isn’t the best spell at handing OoF. Also, shatter will open the lungs for you in z5 making it a lot easier.

The way I play is as a pure blaster caster ignoring all defenses until I have my spells up. My defenses are overwhelming power plus extreme fear. So I would invest in earth until shatter is up. You’d need 22 or so with veh. Less if you get wiz or int gear. I’d also invest in some ice for perma to maybe 12 or so. I’d hope to find the lvl 9 ice spell to complement shatter. That combo is amazing. Shatter opens up a place to cast that spell and you cast the ice one if anything gets too close. I don’t know if it is a good strategy but it works for me occasionally. I do it because it leans into DE’s strengths to stay ahead of the difficultly curve. I spend everything after the S Branches (assuming I have a spell set I like) getting defenses in order for zot.

Next, any time I’m finding resistance in my path of destruction I go find a new branch. I do this with D, I never have a set level I go to, sometimes I will clear D before entering L or O. Sometimes I go directly into one of those branches. But I am always aware of how hard things are and will try to find something new if I’m having issues.

Edit: I lied about how I skill. After I get my initial spell set up, prism and IMB, I skill like so. I target skill levels, like Spellcasting 15 or Fighting 5 based on their XP cost. I do it in 2 lvl increments. If fighting/dodging are half the cost it is to raise my spell schools or Spellcasting I train them for 2 lvls. I then train whatever is cheaper my main school or spellcasting. And so on and so forth. So I don’t neglect defenses entirely, but my goal is really to get powerful spells online asap. Once I have my lvl9s failing at 1% or so I start ignoring their school and exclusively investing in spell casting and defenses. I also sprinkle in a little shields if I find a buckler and evok up to 7 or so eventually.

112

Finally I understood what you say about skilling: thanks for this explaination!

Uhm, I misread the branches order (that someone wrote down in this post):
D → Lair
Do all of Lair
D → 11 or 12, depending on what I run into
Do all of Orc
D → 15 / S branches, order depending on what I run into
Do all of Elf
Do Vault 1-4
Crypt / Depths, order depending on what I run into
Do all of Slime (carefully!)
Do V5
Do Zot

I know, it’s one of your seeds!
I choose it because it seems to be really viable to understand how to play DECj: alot of useful armor items, even a spellvamp staff in E2 (iirc)

Sorry but I cannot read this, can you explain it better?
I miss the “rev” and “OoF” meaning, sorry.

I think that DECj let you better understand mana management and skill management, because DjCj let you totally forget magics skills training mix. It’s not easy, but we’ll try to be a little bit better at it :stuck_out_tongue:

113

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The staff or the unique shield?

I’m more for the shield: reflect ranged and magic, this seems OP!

114

Shield, rPois doesn’t matter for Dj. Unless you use a lot of alchemy, the mirror is a lot better.

115

rev = Scroll of Revelation = ?revelation
OoF = Orb of Fire

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116

I believe what Sobieck is getting at is this: Shatter can break down walls and doors. Sometimes there are areas where really nasty enemies/mobs are just behind a wall/door. If you Shatter, you might set them loose, And now they get to move first. So be careful using Shatter near unfamiliar walls/areas.

This is particularly important in Zot, because down there, a lot of enemies are really, really dangerous. Like, Orbs of Fire. Those things are extremely fast and durable, can dish out ludicrous amounts of fire damage (even through rF+), and malmutate you into a useless lump of jelly. You don’t want to face one without being ready. So if Shatter lets one loose and it surprises you, that is gonna suck.

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117

If someone wants to have a nice seed, I suggest 12069888837513486943.
As a caster you get Veh in upper levels, 2 acquirement scrolls and in L2 you’ll found a beehive where in the middle (using dig) you can find a salamander armor (really funny to use)

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118

Is that version 0.32.1 or trunk?

119

version 0.32.1, give it a try.

I’m a DjCj with xxx rC (I know, is bad) but with that armor I’m feeling like a burning tornado … with inner flame, scorch and OTR I’m a pure cloud of fire <3

1 Thank
120

Yeah, blink frog summed this up perfectly. Shatter is the one spell that will majorly modify your surroundings. Several times now I’ve gone down to zot feeling like a god, only to shatter a vault full of nasty enemies that shatter cannot handle properly. So I try to save up at least 5 rev scrolls to read as I go down stairs to make sure I don’t let out anything nasty.