Opinions on all the spells

GOOD spells are spells that any mage I play might be interested in picking up, depending on circumstances:
shock, airstrike, arcjolt, blink, bombard, borgnjor’s vile clutch, brom’s barreling boulder, chain lightning, fire storm, fireball, forge lightning spire, foxfire, freeze, freezing cloud, grave claw, ignite poison, ignition, irradiate, iskenderun’s battlesphere, iskenderun’s mystic blast, lee’s rapid deconstruction, lehudib’s crystal spear, magnavolt, malign gateway, dragon’s call, mephitic cloud, orb of destruction, ozocubu’s refrigeration, passage of golubria, passwall, permafrost eruption, plasma beam, poisonous vapours, polar vortex, sandblast, scorch, searing ray, shatter, starburst, sticky flame, stone arrow, tukima’s dance, flame wave, spellspark servitor, hellfire mortar

Comments:
shock is the best level 1 spell. Learn to bounce it.
Borgnjor’s vile clutch is good, but the spell schools are somewhat inconvenient.

OKAY spells are spells that I might pick up, situationally, if I have no good alternative:
summon small mammal, sigil of binding, dispel undead, infestation, kiss of death, mercury arrow, olgreb’s toxic radiance, ozocubu’s armour, soul splinter, vampiric draining, frozen ramparts, fulminant prism, hailstorm, apportation, momentum strike, cause fear, maxwell’s portable piledriver, lesser beckoning, gell’s gavotte

Comments:
summon small mammal can be useful (apart from summoner start) only if you find it very early.
frozen ramparts damage is low. It works well on orcs, not great on anything stronger.
fulminant prism is okay AOE damage, but half the time enemies destroy it
hailstorm is okay if you have literally nothing else. You can’t rely on it for solid damage because it doesn’t work once enemies are next to you.
apportation is good only in extended, for stealing runes.
gell’s gavotte is good, usually in extended because it’s more of a nice to have than an essential, alongside passage of golubria as a way of moving quickly to escape from a situation.

ONLY IF YOU START WITH IT spells are spells I’d never pick up on the side, but would use if I started with them:
confusing touch, ensorcelled hibernation, gloom, jinxbite, kinetic grapnel, magic dart, slow, construct spike launcher

STUPID spells are spells I wouldn’t even pick up if I started with them:
static discharge, alistair’s intoxication, anguish, death’s door, cigotuvi’s putrefaction, curse of agony, detonation catalyst, discord, dispersal, enfeeble, fugue of the fallen, manifold assault, maxwell’s capacitive coupling, metabolic englaciation, petrify, rending blade, silence, swiftness, teleport other, vhi’s electric charge, volatile blastmotes, yara’s violent unravelling, eringya’s noxious bog, inner flame, leda’s liquefaction

Comments:
curse of agony, detonation catalyst, fugue of the fallen, manifold assault, rending blade, and vhi’s electric charge are stupid because they’re melee enhancement spells with moderately high XP requirements. You want better melee? Train melee! Train your weapon skill, wear heavy armor and a shield, get transmutations, get armor, dodging, and shields skills! None of these spells are as good for melee as just training better melee would be.

Static discharge is ok if you’re next to multiple enemies, which you shouldn’t be. It also damages you. If you have static discharge you probably have Shock. Use it.
Alistair’s intoxication is a waste of XP to learn, a waste of MP to cast, and wears off quick. A good similar-level spell like fireball would have just killed the enemies directly.
The same complaint holds for anguish, cause fear, dispersal, enfeeble, metabolic englaciation, yara’s violent unravelling. High level spells can just kill the enemy! If they don’t kill but only impede the enemy, they should be really really good at it, but none of these spells are!
Death’s door leaves you almost-dead around enemies. Better to learn Borgnjor’s instead.
Discord is inferior to a comparable-level direct damage spell, and also sends hasted, mighted enemies at you.
Gell’s Gavotte is a pain to set up, and messes with your position besides.
Maxwell’s Capacitive Coupling takes too long to set up (like 4-5 turns at low power!) and is useless if your target has allies or summons. Perhaps at max power it’s more worth it. But then again, if you’re at max power, why not just cast Chain Lightning? It used to be that you could set this up before the enemy comes into view, so you zap them the moment they turn the corner. But no more; the devs didn’t want you to have fun.
Petrify is a resistible hex, takes several turns to work, and even protects the enemy from taking damage!
Silence gives you a minor boost against certain types of enemies. But you lose the ability to use emergency scrolls. Get a damage spell, man!
Swiftness gives you a minor speed boost at the cost of a turn. The only use for this is making a space between yourself and a speed 10 melee attacker, but you can’t use it in an emergency low-health situation because you can’t afford to get hit as you walk away.
Teleport other is similarly useless. If you’re in an emergency you can’t use it because it’s resistible and takes a few turns to kick in. Better to have a direct damage spell instead.
Volatile blastmotes does laughably low damage and is a pain to set up. Our dear beloved Conjure Flame, how we miss you.
Eringya’s noxious bog has a high spell level, the damage is low (since poison is slow), and it impedes you as well as the enemies!
Leda’s liquefaction is bad for similar reasons.
Inner flame is a good way to have a yak explode in your face. It’s only useful if you can be sure of killing the yak before it gets to your face. But if your spells are strong enough to be sure of that, you don’t need inner flame!

CREATURE spells are spells that summon or create something, not covered by previous categories:
alistair’s walking alembic, animate dead, awaken armor, call canine familiar, call imp, death channel, eringya’s surprising crocodile, forge blazeheart golem, forge monarch bomb, haunt, launch clockwork bee, martyr’s knell, nazja’s percussive tempering, platinum paragon, sculpt simulacrum, sphinx sisters, summon cactus giant, summon forest, summon horrible things, summon hydra, summon ice beast, summon mana viper, summon seismosaurus egg

Many of these are objectively good spells, such as summon horrible things or summon mana viper. I don’t like them though. A lot of enemies will ignore your summons and attack you directly, such as naga sharpshooters or harpies. Summons kill slowly compared to direct damage spells, so if you’re a fragile mage, you can take a lot of damage while you’re waiting! You also can’t really use summons to stair dance, like you can with direct damage spells. Summons also get in the way of your direct damage spells. I also just don’t like the mechanics of managing your summons.

ZIGGURAT spells are spells that you might want in a ziggurat, but with limited value in most other cases:
disjunction, sublimation of blood, borgnjor’s revivification.

QUESTION spells are spells I don’t have much experience with.
diamond sawblades, forge phalanx beetle, fortress blast, fulsome fusillade, hoarfrost cannonade, rimeblight, splinterfrost shell, dimensional bullseye
I’ve cast a few of these but not enough to say for sure if they are good or bad.

And the WORST spell is:
conjure ball lightning
The single worst spell in the game. Cast this spell when enemies are far away, and watch as ranged enemies shoot your lightning balls so they blow up in your face. Or cast this spell when enemies are near, so that they blow up in your face without delay. It might be useful against speed 10 melee packs like death yaks, except by the time you usually get it, those packs are no longer a threat. The main reason to cast this spell is if you have too many hit points and need that number to be lower.

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I think you are misjudging prism. It is by far my favorite starting book spell. It will carry you!

Reasons why it is incredible:

  1. Off screen kills. It will erase pesky orcs without you being in danger of their confuse spells or smiting. See an orc, cast it off center of them, and run away. It will take out packs without you seeing them. This works with all packs. It works when things around on the around a corner, etc.

  2. It is undodgable damage.

  3. It forces you to play while running away. I’m a pretty good blaster caster, and Prism taught me the correct strategy, which is cast, retreat, cast, retreat, etc.

  4. You need to keep in mind the pathing of enemies. They will not attack it if you place it out of their path. Again, incredible for fighting retreats. Cast, retreat out of the blast zone and things die behind you.

Starting book is one thing, but how desirable is it if it’s not in your starting book? Say you’re a mage around XL 8 without prism or any other mid-tier damage spell, and you need to choose between prism and fireball (or any other level 4-6 spell on the good list). Would you really use up 4 spell slots, and train 5+ levels of Alchemy, to get prism? Prism will last you a few XLs, but you could instead train slightly more and get a solid damage spell that will last you the whole game. And that solid damage spell will be from a school (fire, earth, air, or conj) that you’ll want to keep training through the whole game, unlike Alchemy.

In that situation I’m only getting prism if there’s nothing else. That’s why it’s an okay spell, not a good spell.

If you have both Prism and Fireball memorized and castable, how often are you really going to use Prism from that point on?

Also enemies will often attack it even if it’s not in their direct line of travel, especially if they are in a pack shuffling around. Ranged enemies will attack it, making it obsolete once you’re in the lair branches.


Though, that said, I’m now memorizing it as an xl11 spen trying to transition to a blaster mage. Spriggan aptitudes change the equation a little. Even so, now by xl13 I’ve only found occasion to cast it a handful of times, none of which were really necessary, and now I have much better ways to fight: freezing cloud, battlesphere, IMB. So I’m done with it.

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I believe I recognise the name “Berder” as belonging to one of the top players. (Therefore much better then me :wink:)

But this evaluation of spells seems to betray a rather narrow play style (?)

Cause Fear is an incredible mid-game spell for hexers. I know, you say “don’t be a hexer.” Maining as a hexer is not win-rate optimal. But if you do have Hexes as your primary skill, Cause Fear is one of the best defensive spells in the game. It’s able to make 2 thirds of the monsters on your screen run away. As a hexer you often have trouble with crowds. So it can safe your[1] bacon, and is an exciting find.
Cause Fear is the reason I might decide to start as a HexSling Oni.

Maxwell’s portable piledriver deals extremely good damage, and you can use it to run away.

Petrify is part of the EE stabber kit. The passwall change made that style much less powerful & less fun, and you always had to transition to direct damage earth spells in the late game. Still makes for a fun & decently strong midgame. You do have to put 10 skill levels into short blades to make it work, which reduces your character’s strength long-term. (And 15 skill into stealth, but that’s always worth it as a mage with the right aptitudes.)

I’m also a big fan of Prism. Mostly based on how it can carry you until you find a level 6 spell. I have a game with both Fireball and Prism[2], and Fireball feels like it has the worse mana efficiency. Haven’t verified that with calculations.
It does get tedious to kill things with Prism.
Prism used to be a cheat code in Slime to break LOS (and still kill things), but fortunately that’s no longer necessary.


  1. or my, since you wouldn’t play a hexer ↩︎

  2. Sif Muna, so I don’t feel bad about wasting spell slots ↩︎

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Yes, Cause Fear is good if you are a hexer already (but yeah, don’t be). If you’re a blaster mage, you need that MP for your damage spells and you probably don’t have the XP to spare to train much hexes. I suppose there’s a niche where you could get the spell when you’re really weak and out of blink/fear scrolls; I think I did that once. It might get you through a rough patch around xl10. I guess it’s more of an Okay spell than a Stupid spell.

I may also be changing my opinion on Maxwell’s piledriver. It does deal good damage. You can only use it to escape if an enemy is behind you and adjacent, though, which should very rarely be the case. Usually it’s going to make your position worse - closer to the enemies. I don’t think it’s a spell I’d want to rely on for main damage, but maybe it’s also more of an Okay spell than a Stupid spell.

Petrify is still just plain stupid though. Against a pack of yaks, you cast Petrify with around a 50% chance of success, wait around 3 or 4 turns while other yaks continue to run at you and attack you, and then… well, now the petrified yak is behind the others since it was slower, and you can’t get at it. If you do somehow get at it, it has effectively double the normal hit points, and you’re probably going to have to stab it 3-4 times. There are tons of good ways to kill yaks and this is not one of them. Enemies that are tougher than yaks mostly have high enough will that your success chance is like 30%. The exception would be certain uniques, but a wand of paralysis or polymorph is going to be more effective on those.

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Lesser beckoning is plain stupid. A resistible hex to maybe, or maybe not, bring an enemy closer?

Lesser beckoning isn’t resistible, it always pulls the target to an adjacent tile.

I’m not going to say it’s the best spell of all time but there will be times over the course of a game as a melee char where you want that enemy a few tiles away to be right next to you, right now-and it does that.

It’s also level 2, which not only means it’s easy to get online but it’s also exactly as easy to get online as Blink, which is a good spell to pick up for most characters. If you can cast Blink, the only thing stopping you from being able to cast Beckoning if it shows up is the 2 spells slots it takes to memorize it, which makes the opportunity cost of getting it active very low.

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Good point, my mistake.

You’re really sleeping on the utility of Yara’s Violent Unravelling. Immediately and irresistibly turning off an Ironbound Invoker’s “recall”, a melee brute’s “might”/“haste”, etc., using a smite-targeted effect is very useful. It also deletes summons, which is awesome.

Then again, you’re clearly ranking these for a blaster-caster…Lesser Beckoning, Manifold Assault, Fugue of the Fallen are great spells for the right melee character. Confusing touch is an amazing spell for stabbers all the way through the mid-game. Discord, Death’s Door, Maxwell’s Capacitive Coupling all have extremely powerful use cases, though on most characters I concede they aren’t worth the skill training.

I appreciate your sharing your opinion on these! There are a couple in your Good list that I haven’t played with and have always assumed aren’t worth it, like sticky flame.

Crawl on!

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A blaster caster should be able to just kill the invoker or melee brute in a couple turns, without having to train hexes or alchemy. They’re already probably training 3 schools out of conj/air/earth/fire, so adding 2 more for a level 5 spell is too much. A melee guy casting a level 5 hexes/alchemy spell would also be better off using that xp in other ways.

You might have a point about fugue of the fallen. I’ll have to give it a closer look.

Lesser beckoning I already discussed.

I have had cause to use manifold assault once, on a transmuter of chei in extended. This was a few versions ago when it was level 5 and didn’t have a penalty for unarmed combat. It was a useful ranged option at the time for a very slow walking character. But now that it’s level 7 and nerfed for UC, it’s harder to justify. Certainly it would be pointless in a 3 rune.

There’s no justifying Discord. Hexes are bad to begin with, and as an ultimate spell, Discord doesn’t hold a candle to Firestorm, Shatter, or Chain Lightning. I’d even rather have just a high power Starburst or Fireball over Discord; both are capable of killing packs quickly, and the fire spells do it without leaving frenzied monsters in your face.

People talk up DDoor but it only lasts a few turns and then you have 30 hit points. If there are any enemies around when DDoor ends, you could be dead in one turn. Do that routinely and you will eventually have a bad roll and die. What situation do you use DDoor for that you wouldn’t be better served by Borgnjor’s revivification?

I recently played an air mage with maxwell’s capacitive coupling and just never had cause to use it. When am I going to wait 5 turns for a single enemy to die, risking a weaker enemy coming into view and taking the hit, when I have Chain Lightning, which kills a single target just as fast or faster and doesn’t care how many enemies are around?

To be fair, sticky flame was nerfed significantly. Used to be, you could tag a death yak and walk away while it burned, and if that wasn’t enough, repeat. Even non-fire elementalists could benefit from grabbing it. Alas, the devs decided no fun was allowed. It’s still a decent boost to your damage output, if you’re already training fire/conj and don’t have higher level spells. It’s something you’ll stop using by like xl13 though.

I can justify Discord. Discord plus good Translocations spells allows you to clear everything in the game before the Orbs of Fire easily. [1] 8 mana to cast a hex, then 4 mana to cast Passage of Golubria, and thing die, whist you are safe. Only branch entrances, the green slimes, and the very tanky MR infinity endgame threats can threaten you at that point.

Blaster casters don’t have nearly as good mana efficiency.

It’s even got a power multiplyer compared with the “normal” hexes. It can kill things that are MR immune through proxies. It can even kill monsters you’ve never even seen.

It’s so good it gives me hubris, and then I die from hubris :rofl:


  1. except Slime. Those nasty green slimes don’t kill each other properly, like they should :sob: ↩︎

PoEn with extremely high stealth + antiwill orb + discord might be the most fun you can have. Something comes on screen, discord them and mosey away from the carnage.

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Blaster casters don’t have nearly as good mana efficiency.

Blaster casters of Vehumet with Firestorm can get 100% mana efficiency; they regain MP from Vehumet as fast as they spend it. Even with just Starburst/Fireball/Plasma Beam, they can often stay in a battle quite a long time if they are careful to position their shots to hit several enemies at once, especially with an amulet of mana regeneration.

One of my early deaths was a deep elf that cast Discord and got one-shotted from 120 HP (full health) to 0 in one turn by a frenzied Ettin. It can happen to you. If you use Discord a lot it probably has happened to you!

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Every time I got discord running for years it would backfire on me, even when I had YVU to unhaste things. It inevitably killed me. My first win ever with it was with my PoEn. Fun but it certainly is a foot cannon.

I was surprised to see Gell’s Gavotte listed as a stupid spell.

But amusingly, the thing you list as its drawback – that it “messes with your position” – is something I actually judge as a benefit. I can use it to reposition at the same time as doing damage or fling enemies away to keep space. Or occasionally as a pure escape spell.

I suppose it helps that I usually play spriggans; I imagine the fast movement speed makes it a lot easier to set things up. (and the aptitude making it relatively cheap helps too)

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Thanks for putting this into Crazy Yuif’s Corner instead of Dungeon Crawling Advice!

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